3380 1 2 MANITOBA CLEAN ENVIRONMENT COMMISSION 3 4 VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT 5 Volume 14 6 7 Including List of Participants 8 9 10 11 Hearing 12 13 Wuskwatim Generation and Transmission Project 14 15 Presiding: 16 Gerard Lecuyer, Chair 17 Kathi Kinew 18 Harvey Nepinak 19 Robert Mayer 20 Terry Sargeant 21 22 Thursday, March 25, 2004 23 Kikiwak Inn 24 The Pas, Manitoba 25 3381 1 LIST OF PARTICIPANTS 2 3 Clean Environment Commission: 4 Gerard Lecuyer Chairman 5 Terry Sargeant Member 6 Harvey Nepinak Member 7 Kathi Avery Kinew Member 8 Doug Abra Counsel to Commission 9 Rory Grewar Staff 10 CEC Advisors: 11 Mel Falk 12 Dave Farlinger 13 Jack Scriven 14 Jim Sandison 15 Jean McClellan 16 Brent McLean 17 Kyla Gibson 18 19 Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation: 20 Chief Jerry Primrose 21 Elvis Thomas 22 Campbell MacInnes 23 Valerie Matthews Lemieux 24 25 3382 1 LIST OF PARTICIPANTS 2 3 Manitoba Conservation: 4 Larry Strachan 5 6 Manitoba Hydro/NCN: 7 Doug Bedford, Counsel 8 Bob Adkins, Counsel 9 Marvin Shaffer 10 Ed Wojczynski 11 Ken Adams 12 Carolyn Wray 13 Ron Mazur 14 Lloyd Kuczek 15 Cam Osler 16 Stuart Davies 17 David Hicks 18 Elizabeth Hicks 19 George Rempel 20 David Cormie 21 Alex Fleming 22 Marvin Shaffer 23 Blair McMahon 24 25 3383 1 LIST OF PARTICIPANTS 2 3 4 5 Presenters: 6 Chief Clarence Easter - Chemawawin First nnation 7 Reg Meade - Northern Association of 8 Community Councils 9 Gary Hopper - Mayor of The Pas 10 Norval Desjarlais - MMF of The Pas Region 11 Joe Moose - Private 12 Jimmy D. Spence - Private 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3384 1 INDEX OF EXHIBITS 2 3 Number Page 4 5 OTH-1013: Submission by Darryl Montgomery 6 to CEC 3387 7 8 OTH-1014: Presentation slides submitted by 9 Clarence Easter, Chemawawin First 10 Nation 3481 11 12 OTH-1015: Presentation by Mr. Meade for the 13 Northern Association of Community 14 Councils 3492 15 16 OTH-1016: Presentation to the Clean 17 Environment Commission on the 18 Public Hearings on the Wuskwatim 19 Generation and Transmission Project 20 by Mayor Gary Hopper 3504 21 22 OTH-1017: Presentation by Mr. Desjarlais on 23 behalf of MMF 3544 24 25 3385 1 2 INDEX OF UNDERTAKINGS 3 4 UNDERTAKING NO. PAGE 5 6 55 Advise what has been done to 7 address healing of people, lands, 8 and water for South Indian Lake, 9 Cross Lake, Grand Rapids 3529 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3386 1 Thursday, March 25, 2004 2 Upon commencing at 1:00 p.m. 3 4 THE CHAIRMAN: We will begin as 5 quickly as possible. First to begin, I would call 6 upon elder Sam Dysart to say the prayer. 7 MR. DYSART: Thank you, welcome. I am 8 very glad to be at The Pas again, standing here as 9 an elder to pray for you and our communities, the 10 northern community. I hope we have a good turnout 11 today. Let us pray. You can pray the silent 12 prayer. I will pray in my own language so my 13 elders can understand. 14 15 (PRAYER) 16 (CREE SPOKEN) 17 18 MR. GREWAR: Mr. Chairman, before we 19 begin, I wonder if I might enter an exhibit? 20 THE CHAIRMAN: Please proceed. 21 MR. GREWAR: This is simply the 22 written comments of Darryl Montgomery, who was 23 representing the Manitoba Metis Federation in 24 Thompson, and he made a presentation and indicated 25 that he would get the typed text to us. At that 3387 1 time, we did not assign an exhibit number. I 2 would like to do so now. The exhibit would be, 3 Darryl Montgomery's CEC submission, Manitoba Metis 4 Federation, and the filing number would be 5 OTH-1013. 6 7 (EXHIBIT OTH-1013: Submission by 8 Darryl Montgomery to CEC) 9 10 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Good 11 morning ladies and gentlemen, we appreciate the 12 opportunity to meet with you in The Pas. This is 13 the community which will be the terminal point of 14 the transmission line carrying electricity from 15 the project, resulting from the Wuskwatim 16 generation station, if and when it gets built. 17 I wish to thank the people of OCN for 18 welcoming the CEC in their community, and I also 19 take this opportunity to thank you in advance for 20 the contribution you will bring to this process so 21 that we, as Commissioners of the Clean Environment 22 Commission, will be better able to understand your 23 views and make the most enlightened 24 recommendations to the Minister in the best 25 interests of the First Nations of the north and 3388 1 for all of the people of Manitoba. 2 My name is Gerard Lecuyer. I am a 3 member of the Manitoba Clean Environment 4 Commission and the chair of this panel for the 5 Commission's Wuskwatim Generation and Transmission 6 Projects review. With me today are four other 7 Commissioners serving on this panel. To my right, 8 second from the end is Ms. Kathi Avery Kinew; to 9 my immediate right, Mr. Robert Mayer; on my left 10 Mr. Terry Sargeant; and to my extreme right, 11 Harvey Nepinak. Mr. Terry Sargeant was recently 12 appointed as chairperson of the Manitoba Clean 13 Environment Commission, as you may have read or 14 heard. 15 In addition to the Commission panel, I 16 would like to introduce the staff and advisors 17 that are assisting us with this review, including 18 the Commission secretary, Mr. Rory Grewar at the 19 end, the Commission administrative secretary, Ms. 20 Joyce Mueller, who is at the entrance and will 21 take your registrations; Commission counsel 22 Mr. Doug Abra of the firm Hill Abra and Dewar, 23 sitting right here; and from the technical 24 advisory team is Ms. Jean McLellan of Price 25 Waterhouse, she is sitting in the back; Mr. Dave 3389 1 Farlinger of Energy Consultants International; and 2 Mr. Mel Falk of Falk Environmental. 3 Before I continue, I would like to 4 explain that the Manitoba Clean Environment 5 Commission is an arm's length Provincial agency 6 that encourages and facilitates public involvement 7 in environmental matters. It is coupled with the 8 representatives of the Public Utilities Board for 9 this particular hearing. The panel will offer 10 advice and recommendations to the Government. The 11 Commission exercises its mandate through public 12 hearings, investigations, mediation and education. 13 Please see our website at www.manitobacec.ca for 14 information about the Commission and about this 15 public hearing. 16 The Commission operates under the 17 authority of the Manitoba Environment Act. It is 18 also directed by procedural guidelines to ensure 19 that the hearings remain fair and open forums for 20 the exchange of information and ideas. They 21 provide full opportunity for public involvement, 22 that is for you, the people of the community, to 23 be involved in the environmental assessment 24 process and to express your views on the needs for 25 and alternatives to electric energy. 3390 1 The Wuskwatim public hearing, we are 2 here today at the request of the Minister of 3 Conservation to conduct an integrated public 4 hearing respecting the Manitoba Hydro and 5 Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation proposal for the 6 development of the Wuskwatim generation station 7 and associated transmission lines. 8 The Commission was mandated to conduct 9 the hearing to consider, firstly, the 10 justification, need, and alternatives to the 11 Wuskwatim proposals; and secondly, the potential 12 environmental, socioeconomic, and cultural effects 13 of the construction and operation of the Wuskwatim 14 proposals. 15 The Commission was requested to 16 conduct the hearing in general accordance with the 17 process guidelines respecting public hearings, 18 which include procedures for pre-hearing meetings, 19 conferences, and proprietary information. 20 Following the public hearing, the Commission shall 21 provide a report to the Minister of Conservation 22 pursuant to section 7 (3) of the Environment Act. 23 The hearing here in The Pas will go on 24 until this evening, with a break for dinner, and 25 we will reconvene as well tomorrow at 3391 1 9:00 o'clock, and we will adjourn somewhere around 2 4:00 o'clock in the afternoon tomorrow, or a 3 little sooner, if possible. 4 The Commission is convening the 5 hearing, has convened the meeting already for a 6 period of three weeks in Winnipeg. The hearings 7 started the beginning of March. And we have held 8 hearings, as I mentioned already, in Thompson on 9 Monday and Tuesday. We are now here in The Pas to 10 terminate the hearings in the north. 11 We will begin today with opening 12 remarks by Mr. Larry Strachan of the Manitoba 13 Conservation on the environmental assessment and 14 review process undertaken to date and the 15 licensing process to follow the public hearing. 16 Then the co-proponents, Manitoba Hydro 17 and Nisichawayasihk, will then give a presentation 18 on their need for and alternatives to the 19 Wuskwatim Generation and Transmission Projects, 20 and the Environmental Impact Statement for the 21 project. It will be an overview, and part of it 22 will be presented -- the portion which deals with 23 the transmission, as they will explain, will be 24 also presented partly in the Cree language. 25 Once the proponents have completed 3392 1 their presentation, the participants here may then 2 proceed to ask questions of the proponents 3 relating to the proposals in order to obtain 4 clarification or a better understanding of what 5 has been said, or to express views and opinions. 6 Once the panel has sat down, you will get an 7 opportunity to make your own presentations. All 8 presenters at the end of their questioning will 9 have an opportunity to re-examine their witnesses. 10 Before moving on to the presentations, 11 there are just a few items that I want to mention. 12 You should take the opportunity to register at the 13 entrance with Ms. Joyce Mueller. This will give 14 you an opportunity to receive a copy of the report 15 of the public hearings. Secondly, please provide 16 copies of your presentation, if at all possible, 17 to Ms. Mueller at the entrance, or to Mr. Grewar 18 here. And we will make copies if you haven't got 19 any, we are equipped to do that, so that copies 20 may be shared with the other participants. We 21 ourselves require copies of the presentations, so 22 if possible, we would appreciate you to leave us 23 with copies. 24 We have also, at the entrance, you 25 have also the possibility to register to indicate 3393 1 that you wish to make a presentation, and that is 2 open to everyone who is here. When you make your 3 presentation or you want to address the panel or 4 the proponents, please come forward and state your 5 name clearly so that we can record all that is 6 stated here. You will see the lady there is there 7 to make a verbatim transcript of all of the 8 proceedings, and afterwards this information is 9 available on the website at www.reidreporting.com, 10 Reid spelled R-E-I-D. You can also make 11 arrangements with the transcription service to 12 purchase copies of the transcript in various 13 formats. I think you can do so by leaving your 14 name and information with the reporter, or by 15 calling 947-9774 in Winnipeg. 16 When the hearings are completed -- 17 first of all, they are not completed here in The 18 Pas. We will continue the hearings when we get 19 back to Winnipeg -- but when the hearings are 20 completed, we will prepare a report for the 21 Minister with our advice, observations, and 22 recommendations. And some three months 23 approximately after the report -- after the 24 hearings, the report will be forwarded to the 25 Minister. It will be he who determines when to 3394 1 release the report. 2 I just want to make one last comment 3 about the role of the Clean Environment 4 Commission. We have, as I already have stated, a 5 mandate from the Minister to hold these hearings, 6 but we have no authority to deal with anything 7 that is not related, within the guidelines for 8 this, for the proposed projects. So I say that 9 just so you know that, unfortunately, we are not 10 here as messengers sent by the Great Spirit to 11 solve all issues or problems that you may wish we 12 could solve. We can not leave here having turned 13 your life into heaven. Unfortunately, we haven't 14 got that mandate or that power. 15 That having been said, I finish these 16 comments and invite Mr. Strachan to come forward 17 and speak to us on behalf of Conservation. 18 MR. STRACHAN: Thank you, 19 Mr. Chairman, panel members, ladies and gentlemen. 20 My name is Larry Strachan. I am employed as the 21 Director of the Environmental Approvals Branch out 22 of Manitoba Conservation, and in that capacity it 23 is my responsibility to administer the 24 environmental assessment and licensing process 25 under the Manitoba Environment Act, and these 3395 1 projects are being reviewed under that Act. 2 I would like to share with you a brief 3 summary of the cooperative environmental review 4 process that we have conducted to date on the 5 projects under review. 6 There are two projects under review, 7 as the chairman has indicated, a generation 8 station and associated transmission lines. These 9 projects require both approvals environmentally 10 from Manitoba and Canada. Environment Act 11 licenses are required for both projects. And what 12 is known as a Federal comprehensive study, review, 13 and report is required for the generation station. 14 We began the review process by 15 developing a project administration team process 16 under the Manitoba/Canada agreement for 17 environmental assessment. We did this because 18 both Provincial and Federal approvals were 19 required, so we wanted to have one process to deal 20 with both sets of approvals. The process was 21 administered by Manitoba. To generate the 22 information required to review the proposals, we 23 used the Manitoba Environment Act process. 24 As the Chairman has indicated, the 25 Clean Environment Commission is an important 3396 1 component of that process, and the information 2 from the hearing will be used by the regulatory 3 agencies to make final decisions. The information 4 generated must adhere to the responsibilities of 5 both sets of legislation that are the Manitoba 6 Environment Act and the Canadian Environmental 7 Assessment Act. 8 Proposals were filed with us for the 9 projects in December of 2001, and in order to 10 guide the proponents in developing an 11 Environmental Impact Statement on the projects, we 12 developed what is known as a set of Environmental 13 Impact Statement guidelines. We consulted with 14 the public through meetings of this Clean 15 Environment Commission and finalized those 16 guidelines in April of 2002. 17 Following the guidelines, the 18 proponents prepared Environmental Impact 19 Statements, both on the biophysical aspects of the 20 projects and on the needs and alternatives for the 21 projects, and filed those statements with us in 22 April of 2003. We then subjected those statements 23 and information to public and technical review, 24 and we also established, under the Manitoba 25 Environment Act, a program that's called 3397 1 participant assistance to allow individuals to 2 apply for funding to assist them in participating 3 in this hearing. 4 As a result of the public and 5 technical review of the Environmental Impact 6 Statements we required two supplemental filings 7 from the proponents, and also our Federal 8 colleagues from Fisheries and Oceans Canada 9 required more detailed information regarding the 10 fisheries aspects of the generation proposal. 11 In October of 2003, we determined that 12 the information filed with us, being the 13 Environmental Impact Statements and the 14 supplemental filings, were sufficient and adequate 15 for review by the Manitoba Clean Environment 16 Commission. We submitted those to the Commission 17 for that review. 18 As I indicated earlier, the 19 information and advice from these public hearings 20 will be very important for our final review and 21 decisions, and we look forward to receiving that 22 advice, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. 23 MR. GREWAR: Mr. Chairman, we have a 24 limited number of copies left of Mr. Strachan's 25 presentation, if there is anyone that would like a 3398 1 copy to take away. It was a document that was 2 filed as an exhibit some time ago, but we now have 3 limited copies if anyone wants to ask me for them. 4 THE CHAIRMAN: Periodically during the 5 ongoing process of these hearings, we will have 6 moments to stretch our legs. And at that time if 7 you wish to register at the front, if you forgot 8 to do so, or if you are interested in obtaining 9 copies, as Mr. Grewar has indicated, you may wish 10 to come forth then and pick them up. 11 I will now turn the floor over to the 12 proponents to present an overview of their 13 project, of the proposals. 14 MR. GREWAR: Mr. Chairman, it may be 15 helpful to mention if anybody wishes to hear the 16 presentation in Cree, there is simultaneous 17 translation transmitters available at the back of 18 the room, and that will enable you to hear any of 19 the English that is spoken translated 20 simultaneously into Cree. 21 CHIEF PRIMOSE: Good afternoon to all 22 of the people that are here this afternoon. My 23 name is Jerry Primrose, I am Chief of the 24 Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation. I would like to 25 thank the Commissioners and the other participants 3399 1 for this opportunity to once again speak about the 2 Wuskwatim Generation and Transmission Projects, 3 Mr. Chairman. 4 We are very pleased to be here in The 5 Pas, the nation of our Cree brothers and sisters 6 of the Opaskwayak Cree Nation. Today the citizens 7 of The Pas will hear about the Wuskwatim projects 8 and have the opportunity to ask questions of our 9 presenters and bring their comments to this 10 Commission. Our team and I welcome this 11 opportunity for their contributions. Wuskwatim is 12 important for all of us in the north. Our two 13 First Nations have shared many things over 14 thousand of years in our northern land, and we 15 continue to work together to preserve our Cree 16 culture and to survive as people. We have many 17 things in common. 18 Earlier this week, Commissioners, you 19 heard me speak of our aspirations to find ways to 20 improve our economy as a way to improve our lives. 21 Here in The Pas there is much evidence of the 22 success of our brothers and sisters of the 23 Opaskwayak Cree Nation and we are proud of their 24 success. Like NCN, they own a successful hotel, 25 this beautiful building that we are in this 3400 1 afternoon. Here in The Pas, they also own the 2 successful OCN Blizzard Junior Hockey Team, the 3 IGA, the Otineka shopping mall just next door, a 4 successful gravel and sand business, a Shell gas 5 bar that is probably one of the highest grossing 6 gas bars in Western Canada, a mobile home 7 subdivision, a casino, and more. They are one of 8 the most progressive First Nations in Canada, and 9 I congratulate Chief Frank Whitehead, his Council, 10 and the people of OCN for their achievement. 11 This is the kind of economic success 12 that we are planning and working towards as we 13 move forward with the Wuskwatim project. We know 14 it is not the only thing that will bring us the 15 economic sustainability that we seek, but it will 16 be an important milestone on a path to a better 17 life for our NCN members. 18 My people desperately need to trust 19 that things are going to get better, not worse. 20 We need to have something positive to focus on 21 that is not in the past, and not the Churchill 22 River Diversion. You have heard throughout the 23 hearings the pent up hurt, anger, and mistrust 24 over the CRD, but I hope you have also heard in 25 the background that it is about more than just CRD 3401 1 and Hydro. If you listen closely, you will also 2 have heard the voices of a people who have not 3 been in control of their own lives, people who 4 have had things done to them and who have not had 5 enough opportunity to do for themselves in their 6 own way. You, the Commission, have been a 7 convenient and available means to get their 8 feelings and concerns "on the record." I 9 understand this, I see this as a way to move 10 forward, and that is why I can respect those 11 voices that speak against the project. 12 We are a community that is changing, 13 and change is not easy, especially when change in 14 the past has done you no favours. We need to 15 build a history of success to offset and balance 16 failures of the past. That is why we are trying 17 so hard to ensure this project is done in the 18 right way for the right reasons. 19 As you have heard, our focus as we 20 move forward has been to protect our lands and 21 waters, to protect our Aboriginal rights and be 22 sensitive to the rights of other First Nations, 23 and to negotiate a partnership that will give us, 24 that will give our people the best opportunity for 25 a strong future. 3402 1 We have also tried to keep in mind the 2 interests of the people of South Indian Lake, even 3 though they are on a separate track seeking their 4 own reserve. Under law we are obligated to them 5 and we support them and respect their goals, even 6 though the process of separation has not been easy 7 and is still ongoing. 8 9 In the long term, we expect that that 10 we will get the financial benefits from the share 11 of our revenues from Wuskwatim, and in the long 12 term, say starting 6 to 8 years after the project 13 starts up operation, we are going to see the 14 opportunity for rate decreases compared to what 15 they would otherwise be -- or lower rate increases 16 perhaps, depending on the situation. So we see 17 Wuskwatim as being very positive. That finishes 18 the need for and alternatives. 19 We are now going to move on to the 20 environmental presentation and Mr. Cam Osler is 21 going to start that. 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Ms. Kinew. 23 MS. AVERY KINEW: Could you please 24 tell the people here what the closest register is 25 for all of that material, where they can reach it 3403 1 in this area? 2 MR. WOJCZYNSKI: There is one in The 3 Pas. 4 MS. AVERY KINEW: Public library? 5 MR. WOJCZYNSKI: I believe that is 6 right, you must be right. We know there is one in 7 The Pas and I believe it is in the public 8 library -- yes, it has just been confirmed. So 9 all of this material and any of the other material 10 put on the public registry is available locally in 11 The Pas at the public registry. There is also one 12 at Nelson House. There is also, in the 13 Tataskweyak or Split Lake public registry in 14 Winnipeg -- I am not sure where the other ones 15 are -- it is also available on the Manitoba Hydro 16 website, NCN has a website as well, but all of 17 this information is on the Manitoba Hydro website 18 as well under the Wuskwatim portion of the 19 website. 20 MS. AVERY KINEW: Thank you. 21 Those in our community that close 22 their eyes, ears, and hearts to this project are 23 hard to reach. Some have simply refused to come 24 to meetings that we have held and turned our 25 information away at their doors, and then claimed 3404 1 they have not received any information or 2 consultation. But we continue to try to reach out 3 and offset the misinformation that active 4 political opponents have spread about the project. 5 Some of it you have seen and heard at this 6 hearing. 7 Today, I would like to introduce you 8 to some of our community consultants who are 9 working in Nelson House, South Indian Lake, 10 Winnipeg, Brandon, and Thompson to keep our 11 members informed. I would like the consultants of 12 NCN to please stand and raise your hand, or stand 13 up so we can see you. We also have seven support 14 staff here with us, so if I could get NCN members, 15 consultants, and support staff to stand, please, I 16 would appreciate that. 17 These NCN members are part of our 18 future development team that Councillor Thomas 19 heads. Commissioners, these people have a hard 20 job. They try their best to reach everyone in our 21 community to talk to them about the project, 22 distribute information about it, translate some of 23 it, and be available to find answers to member 24 questions. 25 You have to understand the project and 3405 1 try to communicate to our members, often in Cree. 2 We know it is likely impossible for everyone to 3 know and understand the complexities of a project 4 like this, but we continue to try our best with 5 the help of our technical consultants, who are 6 frequently used to explain the project and prepare 7 information and answer questions. 8 Our people are very concerned not to 9 repeat the impacts of CRD. Nothing is more 10 important to us than our environment and our 11 people. Protecting both is our primary concern. 12 Of course, the proposed Wuskwatim project will 13 have an environmental impact, but the impact is 14 minimal, especially when balanced against the 15 benefits. 16 As you have heard, the flooding will 17 be less than half a square kilometre, and this is 18 because we said no to the original high head dam 19 that was proposed for the project, because the 20 flooding would have been substantial, and that was 21 unacceptable to us. We used our traditional 22 knowledge, that combined with western science, 23 equals sustainable development for us and the 24 north. 25 This knowledge helped us not only in 3406 1 the planning for the Wuskwatim dam sites and 2 roads, but also for the transmission line routes 3 for this project. We asked for several changes to 4 the routes so that the important cultural sites 5 would not be disturbed and to protect our resource 6 area from too easy access that would harm it. At 7 the same time we wanted to provide better access 8 to their resource management area immediately 9 south of Wuskwatim. 10 Everything we have done in working 11 with Manitoba Hydro towards the proposed 12 development has been for our future generations. 13 We are here for our children and their children. 14 We are working to change the status quo, but we 15 need the resources to do that. We need new homes, 16 education for our kids, and employment. So we 17 have to act to find solutions for our problems or 18 our problems will grow. 19 As we have told you, living off the 20 land is no longer an option for the majority of 21 our people. We no longer have a hunting economy. 22 Our young people have their own ideas about what 23 they want to do. Our young people want to 24 maintain our Cree culture, but they also want to 25 be all that they can, and chose to be in the 3407 1 professions and trades and to be part of Canada's 2 business, political, cultural, health, social and 3 arts world. They have the right to live as well 4 as anyone else, with the same opportunity. No one 5 can deny them this. 6 Commissioners, in the audience today 7 are good examples of our young people, our future 8 leaders. I would also like you to meet three of 9 them. First one is Geraldine Spence -- can you 10 please stand up? Geraldine is 22 years old. She 11 expects to graduate with a Bachelor of Science 12 from the University of Manitoba and enroll in 13 Dentistry in the fall. Her hope is to establish 14 her practice in Nelson House when she completes 15 her Dentistry program. Also one of the other 16 young NCN members here today is Willy Moore. 17 Willy is also 22 years old. He has a dream to 18 establish his own engineering firm after he 19 graduates with a degree in Civil Engineering from 20 the University of Manitoba and Red River College 21 in 2005. Also I would like you to meet Tiffany 22 Yetman -- Tiffany, please stand up. Tiffany is 19 23 years old and she is a second year Bachelor of 24 Arts student at the University of Manitoba. She 25 has plans to be a physiotherapist when she 3408 1 graduates. And also there is more young people 2 like Geraldine, Willy, and Tiffany, who deserve a 3 positive supportive environment and the resources 4 to help them succeed. Our First Nation is very 5 proud of these young people. 6 So we are here today not out of 7 self-interest of a few people, but in support of 8 Wuskwatim for the opportunities it represents to 9 create a better future for these young people, and 10 their children, and their generations to come. 11 In closing, I want to thank the Chair 12 and the Commission for your respectful approach to 13 our people here in the north, and especially the 14 opportunity that we have had as a Cree people to 15 hear our language spoken so extensively here in 16 the traditional lands, in our traditional lands. 17 With that, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, I wish 18 to thank you for the opportunities I have had to 19 make presentations to yourself and to the 20 communities in the various parts of Manitoba. 21 Thank you. 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. 23 MR. ADAMS: Good afternoon 24 Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, ladies 25 and gentlemen. Next time we do this we are going 3409 1 to switch the order so I don't always have to 2 follow that act. 3 My name is Ken Adams, I am the 4 vice-president of power supply of Manitoba Hydro. 5 Today, we are very pleased to continue our 6 presentation of the Wuskwatim Generating and 7 Transmission Projects. We look forward to 8 continuing what has been a very vigorous 9 discussion regarding the merits. 10 If we do proceed with these projects, 11 it will be the first northern generating station 12 we will have commenced in nearly 20 years. Since 13 then we have thoroughly reviewed our approach to 14 such developments. Our current plans embody both 15 our new way of cooperating with local Aboriginal 16 people and our commitment to environmental 17 stewardship. 18 In 1992, Manitoba Hydro became one of 19 the first major organizations in Canada to adopt 20 its own principles of sustainable development. 21 Along with our corporate vision and mission 22 statement, our sustainable development principles 23 provide the back drop against which we evaluate 24 all potential projects and programs. Our business 25 environment is extremely complex and is 3410 1 continually evolving. It reflects the changing 2 and diverse perspectives of our customers, our 3 owners, and other stakeholders. Our business 4 environment is also affected by unfolding events 5 throughout the world, including global issues such 6 as climate change, and by events throughout North 7 America, such as the structural changes in the 8 electricity. The Wuskwatim project that we are 9 proposing has been shaped by all of these 10 influences. 11 We firmly believe that the Wuskwatim 12 development is an excellent project when reviewed 13 from each of an environmental, a financial, and a 14 social perspective. That is the so-called triple 15 bottom line. I personally have worked in the 16 hydro power business for nearly 40 years, and I am 17 convinced that this project is an excellent 18 example of sustainable development in action. It 19 fully reflects the core values and strategic 20 priorities recommended by the World Commission of 21 Dams in 2000, and is fully consistent with the 22 International Hydro Power Association's 23 sustainability guidelines released in February of 24 this year. As I noted earlier, Wuskwatim marks 25 the introduction of a fundamentally new and 3411 1 different approach to the development of 2 Manitoba's hydroelectric resources. 3 I would like to emphasize five aspects 4 of this difference. The first is that we are 5 proposing to advance its in-service date by about 6 10 years from what would be required if we were 7 building only to serve Manitoba customers. This 8 will help us continue to participate in the very 9 highly competitive but very lucrative export 10 market. Continued success in this export market 11 is essential for us to be able to continue to 12 offer low electricity prices in Manitoba. 13 The second aspect is that, based in 14 large part on what we have learned during our 15 consultations, Wuskwatim has been deliberately 16 designed as a low impact project. The original 17 design, as Chief Primrose said, was revised to 18 reduce the size from about 350 megawatts to 19 200 megawatts, and to virtually eliminate any new 20 flooding. It was also revised so that its 21 operation would be restricted to what we call 22 daily run-of-the-river in order to limit water 23 level fluctuations both upstream and downstream. 24 Also, through the consultation process, we have 25 selected transmission line, access road, and 3412 1 construction camp locations that respect 2 environmental, cultural, and local community 3 values. 4 The third aspect that makes this 5 project different from previous ones is the 6 unprecedented extent of the consultation that has 7 taken place. Manitoba Hydro initiated 8 consultations with NCN in about 1997, 1998. 9 Subsequently, starting in 2001, Manitoba Hydro and 10 NCN jointly have consulted with every community in 11 the project area, whether they are in the 12 immediate vicinity, upstream, downstream, near the 13 transmission facilities, or just in the region and 14 interested in the project. Excluding our meetings 15 with NCN and NCN members, excluding the meetings 16 with the regulatory authorities and the 17 proceedings in front of this Commission, we have 18 participated in almost 100 meetings with various 19 interested parties. And to date we have filed 20 binders with over 10 feet of written material 21 explaining the project, and we have made this 22 available to the whole world through our website. 23 I doubt that there has ever been a comparable 24 project in Canada with such a comprehensive 25 community and public consultation process. 3413 1 The fourth difference from previous 2 projects is that we have worked and we continue to 3 work very hard with the Provincial and Federal 4 governments, and the communities situated along 5 the Burntwood and Lower Nelson Rivers, to 6 establish a job training program well before the 7 project starts. This program will ensure that 8 northern Aboriginal people can develop the skills 9 needed to qualify for the higher skilled, higher 10 paid jobs that will be available with this project 11 and on any other projects that we or others may 12 undertake in the region. It will also help them 13 prepare for long-term employment in the operation 14 and maintenance of the facilities, or at other 15 locations. 16 The fifth aspect of this project which 17 I want to talk about, and which makes it 18 fundamentally different from anything that we have 19 ever done before, and it is also the one of which 20 we are most proud, is our partnership arrangement 21 with the Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation. As Chief 22 Primrose explained, NCN has participated as a full 23 partner in all of the planning activities, the 24 public and community consultation processes, the 25 open houses, the environmental assessments, and 3414 1 all other aspects of the project. It is fair to 2 say that it has been a very interesting journey 3 for both of us to date, and we certainly look 4 forward to a long and mutually beneficial 5 association with NCN. 6 Before we move to the detailed 7 presentation of the Wuskwatim project, it is 8 appropriate for me to confirm Manitoba Hydro's 9 intentions with regard to certain other potential 10 sources of electricity supply. We will continue 11 to pursue energy conservation and demand 12 management, or PowerSmart programs in our 13 language, to the maximum level at which they are 14 economically and financially viable. We will 15 continue to pursue system efficiencies, or 16 supply-side enhancement in our terminology, again 17 to the maximum level which is economically viable. 18 We continue to explore the possibility of what are 19 often called alternative energy sources, and we 20 have assumed that over the next five years we will 21 be able to purchase or construct at least 22 250 megawatts worth of these sorts of energy 23 sources without any financial, negative financial 24 impact. In fact, we don't see these energy 25 sources as competitors to the Wuskwatim project, 3415 1 but rather as complimentary. They are not 2 mutually exclusive. 3 Returning to the Wuskwatim project, 4 Manitoba Hydro is fully aware of the importance of 5 its activities in Manitoba, and that our actions 6 today will leave a legacy for future Manitobans. 7 Manitoba Hydro and NCN jointly are confident that 8 when viewed in its entirety, we will be able to 9 demonstrate that Wuskwatim will provide a source 10 of clean, renewal energy that will displace fossil 11 fuels throughout other parts of central North 12 America. It will provide financial and 13 reliability benefits to Manitoba Hydro's domestic 14 customers. And we will demonstrate that it will 15 be profitable to both Manitoba Hydro and to NCN. 16 We will also demonstrate that the 17 environmental effects of the project are not 18 significant and, in fact, when viewed on a global 19 basis, there will be a net environmental benefit. 20 We will demonstrate that the projects 21 will provide an economic stimulus to Manitoba, and 22 particularly here in Northern Manitoba, and we 23 will be assured that the risks associated with the 24 proposed development are relatively low and 25 readily manageable. 3416 1 At this point, I would like to turn 2 the presentation over to Councillor Elvis Thomas, 3 who is the NCN Councillor with the future 4 development portfolio, amongst others, and Mr. Ed 5 Wojczynski, who is Manitoba Hydro's division 6 manager of power planning and development. 7 Councillor Thomas and Mr. Wojcznski have had the 8 opportunity for preparing and guiding all of our 9 activities through this review process, and they 10 will introduce and explain the rest of the 11 presentation. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. 12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. 13 MR. THOMAS: Just to introduce to you 14 the panel that we have working with us today, we 15 have had a number of different panels during the 16 course of these hearings. We have had the needs 17 for and alternatives to -- 18 THE CHAIRMAN: Raise the mike a little 19 higher. 20 MR. THOMAS: Are we all set? What I 21 just said is we have had different people on 22 different panels. First we had a need for and 23 alternatives to panel, and we also have an 24 Environmental Impact Statement panel. The 25 previous ones I won't go through, but the current 3417 1 panel that is going to be doing the presentation 2 today, I will introduce. One, first is myself, as 3 the future development portfolio council member. 4 I have with me Cam MacInnes, he is with Unis, and 5 he works with NCN providing us with advice. Cam 6 Osler is with InterGroup. And we have George 7 Rempel with TetrES. We have Stuart Davies with 8 North/South Consultants. We have Elizabeth Hicks 9 with ND Lea. And over here, of course, we have 10 Mr. Ed Wojczynski, he is the division manager for 11 power planning with Manitoba Hydro. And we have 12 also Ken Adams, who you have seen just speak a 13 little while ago, vice-president for power supply 14 with Manitoba Hydro. Lynn Wray is with Manitoba 15 Hydro, and she is one of the most knowledgeable 16 people when it comes to talking about financial 17 situations. So these are the people that will 18 constitute the panel for today, and we are going 19 to do a presentation for you. So with that, we 20 will proceed. Ed, I think you might want to say 21 something. 22 MR. WOJCZYNSKI: I will be brief. We 23 have booklets of the overheads that we are going 24 to present. They are available outside on the 25 table, so if you wanted them, it might be easier 3418 1 to follow. We are not going to use all of the 2 overheads that are in the booklet but the majority 3 of them. We have another booklet that if you want 4 to have, it is about three times or four times as 5 fat, and it is all of the overheads that we used 6 in Winnipeg over the course of the past few days. 7 If anybody wants those, we have those available as 8 well. 9 We are going to have a few brief 10 presentations right away now. The first one is 11 going to be on a project description, it is a 12 description of what is Wuskwatim, and where is it 13 going to be, and how is it going to be constructed 14 and operated? Mr. George Rempel is going to come 15 up and do that right away. While he is getting 16 set up, I will explain that we are also going to 17 have presentations on how is Wuskwatim going to be 18 operated, and what is the economic and financial 19 need for Wuskwatim, and also a discussion on 20 alternatives. Then we are going to talk about the 21 generation EIS, or Environmental Impact Statement. 22 And then we are going to have a computerized Power 23 Point presentation on the transmission 24 environmental studies with a voice explanation or 25 interpretation in Cree. And then Councillor 3419 1 Thomas is going to finish off some closing 2 remarks. So we will start now with the project 3 description. 4 MR. REMPEL: Good afternoon, ladies 5 and gentlemen. As Mr. Wojcznski explained, I will 6 be describing the project description, 7 particularly the generation project. There are 8 two projects, but I will be covering the 9 generation project only, as the Power Point 10 presentation that Mr. Wojcznski talked about with 11 the Cree voice over will discuss the transmission 12 line project. 13 Firstly, I will give you some 14 perspective of where the projects are located. We 15 have a map here to show you in general. Here is 16 the City of Thompson. There is the community of 17 Nelson House. This is the location of the 18 proposed generation station, it is about 37 19 kilometres southeast of the community of Nelson 20 House on the Burntwood River. There will be 21 transmission lines connecting this station to the 22 City of Thompson, a station at the City of 23 Thompson, and also to existing stations at Snow 24 Lake and the existing station here at The Pas. 25 The two projects will consist of a 3420 1 number of main components. This station here at 2 the Wuskwatim location here will have 3 200 megawatts. It will be located on Taskinigup 4 Falls on the Burntwood River. There will be an 5 access road from PR 391, 48 kilometres long all 6 weather road. There will also be a construction 7 camp at the site. That site will house up to 625 8 people. It will be a temporary site, dismantled 9 after construction. And there will be other 10 infrastructure such as a water treatment plant, 11 wastewater treatment plant, quarries and that sort 12 of thing. 13 A six-year construction schedule is 14 planned. That would see completion in 2010 and 15 first power in 2010. The generation station will 16 require transmission lines, about 350 kilometres 17 in total in length. They will connect this 18 station into the existing hydro transmission 19 systems at Thompson, Snow Lake and The Pas. That 20 is an overview. 21 The project has been designed to cause 22 minimal flooding. A great deal of care has been 23 taken in the design and planning. It will be a 24 low head, a low height of dam. It will minimize 25 environmental effects by reducing the flooding to 3421 1 less than half a square kilometre. That low head 2 design produces about 200 megawatts. A higher 3 height of dam would have produced more power, 4 350 megawatts, but with that higher head would 5 have come a lot more flooding, about 140 square 6 kilometres. That has not been chosen. So this 7 low head design that is being proposed will 8 actually have the smallest amount of flooding of 9 any station of the hydroelectric system of 10 Manitoba Hydro. 11 This is a site plan at the Wuskwatim 12 and Taskinigup Falls. I will take a few minutes 13 to go through this. This is Wuskwatim Lake here, 14 this is direction north, in this direction here. 15 Wuskwatim Lake is quite a large lake. The outflow 16 is through Wuskwatim Falls. The water leaves 17 here, tumbles down some falls, proceeds about 1 18 and a half kilometres downstream to Taskinigup 19 Falls where there is a bigger drop, and then the 20 water continues down the Burntwood River. The 21 proposal is to close off these falls here with a 22 main dam. There will be a powerhouse and a 23 spillway constructed. The powerhouse will have 24 three turbines which will capture the falling 25 water. There will be about 22 metres of head that 3422 1 will be captured in these turbines and converted 2 to electric energy. There will be a spillway to 3 take the flow that is in excess of the capacity of 4 the three turbines. Almost all of the time the 5 water will flow through one, two, or three of the 6 turbines. This distance here is about 1 and a 7 half kilometres, and the water will rise about 7 8 metres that interval. That will cause the half 9 square kilometre of flooding that I talked about. 10 It will be a band of shoreline from 11 about 25 metres to about 300 metres that will be 12 flooded. The trees will be cleared in advance of 13 flooding. The total flooded area is about half a 14 square kilometre. 15 At present this water level in 16 Wuskwatim Lake, it varies from season to season 17 depending on how much water is available for the 18 Churchill River Diversion. The water varies about 19 1.7 metres in the course of the 18 years or so 20 that we have had, in the past while with the 21 Churchill River Diversion and the augmented flow 22 program. It is about 1.7 metres with most of the 23 water being at 233.6 metres, on average that has 24 been the height. That will now be held at 234.0 25 almost all of the time, and the water will flow 3423 1 through here. There will be channels excavated 2 here. The extra excavation will be piled up here, 3 and the water will proceed down here and then 4 through the dam downstream. There is, by the way, 5 a picture of the completed dam at the back on the 6 wall so that you can see how it might look in the 7 future. 8 I will talk now about how the dam will 9 affect the water levels in the region. Firstly, 10 just to give you a bit of orientation, here is 11 Nelson House on Footprint Lake, here is Threepoint 12 Lake, the Burntwood River flowing downstream, 13 Early Morning Rapids, then we proceed to Wuskwatim 14 Lake, the proposed station at Taskinigup Falls, 15 and then further downstream, Opegano Lake, 16 Birchtree Lake, and then Thompson. I will 17 describe now how the water levels will change. 18 There will be no change in water level in 19 Threepoint or Footprint Lake. In fact, there will 20 be no change upstream of Early Morning Rapids. 21 The water level variations that exist now, the 22 patterns that exist now in these areas here, 23 Footprint, Threepoint Lake, will continue just as 24 they have for the last 18 years. 25 Downstream of Early Morning Rapids, we 3424 1 get into the area that is controlled by the dam. 2 So this will be a very flat surface here. It will 3 almost always be near the upper end of the present 4 range. It will be within about 13 centimeters or 5 five inches almost all of the time, that is of 6 course excluding wind and wave effects. So this 7 will be a very flat surface to the foot or base of 8 those rapids. It will not affect the rapids. It 9 will not affect the water levels upstream of the 10 Early Morning Rapids. 11 As we go downstream to Wuskwatim Lake, 12 the water level will change as the number of 13 turbines changes -- as the number of turbines 14 operating changes. For example, there will be two 15 turbines running at night and three turbines 16 during the day when there is more power demand. 17 That will result in a little more water flowing 18 out. And even though the water level on a daily 19 basis, it is a daily run-of-the-river plant, on a 20 daily basis the water coming into Wuskwatim Lake 21 will be the same as what left over a 24-hour 22 period. But during the day at any given hour 23 there may be small changes in releases. 24 That relates to the number of turbines 25 operating. When you go from two to three 3425 1 turbines, for example, or one to two turbines, 2 there will be a change in the water level here 3 that will be up to 1.3 metres, 4.2 feet, under 4 normal open water conditions. That change in the 5 tail race or the river here will be smoothed out 6 as we go downstream. 7 As we get to Opegano, it will be a 8 maximum of .45 metres or one and a half feet, 9 typically about 4 inches. As we go downstream 10 further, another 14 kilometres or so, we get to 11 Birchtree Lake, and by this time the daily water 12 level changes will not be noticeable, but they 13 will be up to .1 metres or about 3 or 4 inches, 14 excluding wind and wave effects, and past that 15 there will be no effect at all. So the water 16 levels will change a little bit from Birchtree 17 Lake to the base of Early Morning Rapids. That is 18 the only area that is affected in terms of water 19 level changes brought about by Wuskwatim 20 Generating Station. 21 That is an overview of the generating 22 station. Normally I would describe the 23 transmission line project, but that will be 24 covered in the other presentation shortly. So at 25 this time I would like to turn it back to Ed 3426 1 Wojczynski and he will talk about potential water 2 level effects elsewhere in the system. 3 MR. WOJCZYNSKI: Thank you. So I will 4 be speaking on system operations, and specifically 5 the potential for water regime changes due to 6 Wuskwatim itself. I should explain just very 7 briefly, when we say water regime, what does that 8 mean? We are talking about the flows in the 9 rivers and the levels in the rivers and the lakes. 10 That is what we mean by water regime. I will be 11 speaking about that in this part of the 12 presentation in regard to what will Wuskwatim 13 cause to be different. 14 I should just give a bit of background 15 that, as George just explained, Wuskwatim will be 16 around 200 megawatts of new development. That is 17 in addition to our existing system, which is about 18 five and a half thousand megawatts of generation 19 of megawatts. So adding a 200-megawatt station is 20 a small addition, and what we would expect based 21 on our experience and our judgment is that adding 22 that small addition would only result in a small 23 change in the operation of our existing system, 24 and I will explain that further right away. 25 But our overall conclusion is there 3427 1 will not be any significant changes in the water 2 levels in the rest of our system, except for the 3 area around the Wuskwatim Generating Station 4 itself that George had just explained. 5 So I will start off by explaining in 6 regard to the Churchill River Diversion, or CRD. 7 Fundamentally, the CRD will not change in its 8 operation from the way it has been and is 9 operating at this time. The design and planning 10 for Wuskwatim assumed that the CRD will continue 11 in its current form and will continue to operate 12 under the same rules and the same approach as we 13 have been and are using. And that includes what 14 we call -- well, it is the annual modifications to 15 the interim license for the CRD that is called the 16 augmented flow program that has already been in 17 place for 18 years, we assume that as well in the 18 Wuskwatim operation, we assume that will continue. 19 So the Wuskwatim will not change the CRD flow 20 patterns except in the local area of Wuskwatim, 21 and that is because what we are going to do is 22 some daily shaping of the flows at Wuskwatim. And 23 George explained a little bit about that, we mean 24 nighttime and daytime. 25 But what we are going to be doing in a 3428 1 24-hour period, all of the water that comes in to 2 Wuskwatim Lake will be going out and we won't be 3 holding it back. So within a 24-hour period, all 4 of the water that comes in will go out, so you 5 wouldn't expect to see significant changes down 6 the road, for example. So, that is just a bit of 7 an explanation about the CRD itself. 8 The other major component that 9 Wuskwatim would have potential to have an impact 10 on in terms of changing the water regime would be 11 Lake Winnipeg Regulation. And the reason Lake 12 Winnipeg Regulation might have some modification 13 in its operation is that when we operate 14 Wuskwatim, there may be certain times when it 15 would be more useful to take the energy that is 16 produced from Wuskwatim and use it at a different 17 time of the year. So what we would do is hold 18 back some of the flows out of Lake Winnipeg 19 Regulation and release it at a later time, when 20 the additional energy would be more valuable. 21 That is why there is some potential for Lake 22 Winnipeg Regulation to be modified slightly with 23 Wuskwatim's addition. 24 We need to understand when talking 25 about Lake Winnipeg Regulation that we have a 3429 1 license to operate the Lake Winnipeg operation 2 facility, the Jenpeg facility, and there is strong 3 rules that we have to follow. The first one is 4 that we are talking here about the levels of Lake 5 Winnipeg. I should explain that we are talking 6 here about 711 feet, 715 feet -- that is above sea 7 level. We are not trying to imply that Lake 8 Winnipeg is 700 feet deep. This is just a 9 reference point above sea level. 10 So under the Lake Winnipeg Regulation 11 license, if we are into a flood situation because 12 there has been lots of precipitation like the 13 flood of the century a few years ago, what we have 14 to do, under the license we are obligated to go to 15 maximum discharge under Jenpeg for a flood control 16 regulation, so we have no flexibility there, the 17 license stipulates what we have to do. Similarly, 18 if we are under extreme drought, that is 711 or 19 below, then we have to do what the Minister of 20 Water Stewardship tells us to do. So, again, we 21 have no flexibility there. 22 The third area of operation is when we 23 are in a drought and we are at the low end of our 24 range, close down towards the 711 area. At that 25 point we would be concerned about having enough 3430 1 water for the next few months or the next year 2 under a drought, and we go into what is called 3 conservation mode, holding water back to protect 4 against the drought. And that we don't have much 5 flexibility on either. 6 The area that we do have some 7 flexibility is what is called here normal 8 conditions. So there is a few feet there that we 9 can regulate for power system economics, to get 10 the most value of the water flow. And that is 11 where we have some potential to modify its 12 operation to get some more benefit on a seasonal 13 basis, summer/winter basis, from Wuskwatim. But 14 with our experience and expertise, we would expect 15 those changes to be very small changes in the Lake 16 Winnipeg operation. 17 So we didn't just use our own 18 experience and expertise on that, we have 19 sophisticated computer models where we did studies 20 on Cross Lake and Jenpeg operations, it would be 21 similar to other stretches on the Upper Nelson as 22 well, and we made runs into the future, what would 23 the operation of the whole system, including Lake 24 Winnipeg Regulation, look like? 25 This is a set of runs, a run I guess, 3431 1 without having Wuskwatim, just as we expect the 2 system to be operating with the existing 3 generation. And what we did was took the year 4 2012 and said, what would the operation look like? 5 We don't know if that year is going to be a 6 drought year, a flood year, or what kind of a 7 year. So what we did is we ran all of the 8 historical flows through our models. We said what 9 if the flows that happened in 1970 happened in 10 that year 2012, what would the system do? We did 11 that for every year from 1970 to 1990. And then 12 we did a plot of what Cross Lake would look like 13 under those flows, and we have got from 676 feet 14 above sea level to 686. 15 And you can see there is a large 16 variation, and it is around 8 feet from the top to 17 the bottom, and that is due to Mother Nature 18 giving us either droughts or floods, depending on 19 the rainfall we get. 20 You can see, for example, around 1974 21 we had a flood condition and lots of water going 22 down the Nelson, of course, Cross Lake levels were 23 high. On the other hand you had drought periods, 24 for example, in the late 1980s there were 25 droughts, we had low levels on the Cross Lake 3432 1 because we got less water. So that is a big 2 determinate here of what is going to happen to the 3 Cross Lake levels is how much water is in the 4 system. 5 So then we did another run and we 6 said, let's put Wuskwatim into our system and what 7 it will look like. And you can see here -- it is 8 hard to see. There is two lines here. The black 9 line is with Wuskwatim, and the red line is the 10 one that I just showed you before, that is without 11 Wuskwatim. And you can see there are very small 12 changes with and without Wuskwatim. And this is 13 what we would expect. It is what our computer 14 models have confirmed. 15 So you have got to compare the 16 changes, the small changes to what might typically 17 happen at Cross Lake. And here is some examples, 18 these are maximum changes that you might see. 19 Water supply -- again, by that we mean floods or 20 drought -- you might see up to 8 feet difference 21 from when you got the worst drought to the worst 22 flood, so you would see up to an 8 feet range at 23 Cross Lake just due to that. Wave set-up, you 24 have got waves from one end of the lake to the 25 other, if you have a sustained wave set-up you 3433 1 could have 4 feet of operation, ice effects at 2 .8 feet -- sorry, the wind set-up is when you have 3 sustained wind and the average level, not the 4 waves themselves, but the average level between 5 the waves, that would be half a foot. Jenpeg, we 6 do have some daily operation at Jenpeg, and that 7 would cause .2 feet. 8 So what does Wuskwatim do? Our best 9 case analysis, what we think will happen with 10 Wuskwatim down the road is we will enter into 11 long-term firm exports sales with it, and we would 12 have a .1 foot drop in summer levels with 13 Wuskwatim compared to without. So that would not 14 be perceptible. 15 Similarly, we did a sensitivity case, 16 we said, well, what if the export market is 17 different than we think it is going to be and we 18 don't enter into a long-term firm sale, and we 19 have a sensitivity and that would be in the 20 opposite direction, and that would be a .4 foot 21 increase in the average summer level at Cross 22 Lake. Again, that probably wouldn't be 23 perceptible either. 24 So our conclusion is, both from our 25 experience and from the studies that we have done, 3434 1 that there would not be a perceptible change in 2 the Cross Lake water levels. 3 So what are our conclusions from 4 looking at the water regime? First of all, I 5 reiterate, there will be no change to the 6 Churchill River Diversion operation in the water 7 regime beyond the local area that Mr. Rempel 8 showed us. There will be no perceptible change in 9 the Lower Nelson House water levels, for instance, 10 around Stephen's Lake or downstream of Stephen's 11 Lake. There will be no perceptible change in the 12 Lake Winnipeg outflows. There will be no 13 perceptible change in the water levels affected by 14 Lake Winnipeg Regulation, including, for example, 15 Cross Lake. 16 These results were then provided to 17 our environmental team who assessed what the 18 potential environmental impacts would be or would 19 not be from that. So that completes the water 20 regime part of the presentation. 21 I would like to move on to the next 22 presentation, which is the need for and 23 alternatives to Wuskwatim part. And what do we 24 mean by that? Well, we really have got two parts 25 to our whole submission to the Clean Environment 3435 1 Commission and to all of the work that we have 2 been doing over the last couple of years. And 3 actually, it is kind of hard to see perhaps, but 4 you can see this whole cart, ten feet, over ten 5 feet of material, and this contains thousands and 6 thousands of pages on what we called need for an 7 alternative, and that is related to what is the 8 justification for Wuskwatim, is it the best 9 alternative? And the rest of it, almost ten feet, 10 is the environmental studies that are going to be 11 presented right away. All of this information, by 12 the way, is available to the public and the public 13 registries. 14 So the need for alternatives, I am 15 going to be talking about the justification for 16 Wuskwatim, what are the alternatives, and just 17 briefly what are the economic and financial 18 conclusions? So, overall, what is the 19 justification for Wuskwatim? We believe it is a 20 very profitable project with benefits for all 21 Manitobans, including those, and especially those 22 in Northern Manitoba. It is a very clean project 23 with much less environmental impacts than the 24 generation that it displaces. In a nutshell, that 25 is why we want to build Wuskwatim. 3436 1 What do we mean by that in a bit more 2 detail? First of all, there would be economic, 3 financial, environmental, and reliability benefits 4 from advancing Wuskwatim and increasing 5 electricity exports. In Manitoba right now we 6 have got amongst the lowest electricity price in 7 the entire developed world of any major utility. 8 One of the reasons for that is the exports. 9 Exports are declining. Wuskwatim would let us 10 export more than we would otherwise. 11 Moving on, clean renewable energy, 12 Wuskwatim would provide very clean and would 13 provide renewable energy. We have got the entire 14 Environmental Impact Statement that helps 15 demonstrate that, we have a presentation on that. 16 Mr. Adams and Chief Primrose spoke on the design 17 of Wuskwatim. We went to low flooding, we had 18 large consultations, we have restricted the 19 operation. There is all kinds of things that we 20 have done to have very low impacts from Wuskwatim. 21 So Wuskwatim is a gem of a product 22 from an environmental point of view. It would be 23 very hard to find another project which would have 24 as low environmental impacts as Wuskwatim does. 25 As a matter of fact, Wuskwatim will have from a 3437 1 global point of view environmental benefits 2 because we are going to reduce greenhouse gases by 3 displacing coal and natural gas generation in the 4 export markets. 5 Whenever you do investments you have 6 to look at risks. We have done extensive studies 7 and confirmed that Wuskwatim will have relatively 8 low risks and any that are there will be very 9 manageable. 10 The last aspect here in terms of the 11 need for Wuskwatim is that -- this is a bit of a 12 byproduct, it is not the reason that we are doing 13 Wuskwatim, but it is a very important byproduct -- 14 and that is that Wuskwatim will provide an 15 economic stimulus in Manitoba with a special 16 emphasis on Aboriginal people in Northern 17 Manitoba. We have pre-project training programs 18 that are already starting up. We are going to 19 have employment preferences. There are going to 20 be business opportunities, and particularly in the 21 local area of Wuskwatim, we have got the business 22 partnership with NCN. 23 The other part that we looked at is 24 the alternatives to Wuskwatim. Manitoba Hydro 25 does not just look at building another new hydro 3438 1 dam, we look at the full range of possible 2 resources and see what is the best mix of 3 resources that we should be pursuing. 4 And we are looking at, as Mr. Adams 5 said, we are looking at expanding our energy 6 conservation program. We are looking at 7 alternative energy, wind generation, we have a 8 commitment to put in 200 megawatts of wind, and 9 potentially even more if that is also economic. 10 We are looking at our existing system and 11 continually upgrading and improving the efficiency 12 in that. 13 We are doing all of those things. We 14 have looked at other options as well, building 15 more coal, building more natural gas, we briefly 16 looked at nuclear but not very significantly. 17 There is a wealth of other resources that we have 18 looked at, but we have determined that those four 19 are the main ones that will give us an 20 environmentally and economically diverse 21 portfolio; more energy conservation, wind 22 generation, increasing the efficiency in our 23 system, and new hydro, particularly Wuskwatim. 24 I would like to move on now to the 25 economic conclusions. And we have had extensive 3439 1 economic studies, but I will just summarize the 2 final conclusion for them, is that Wuskwatim is a 3 very attractive project given the relatively low 4 level of risk. We use something called internal 5 rate of return in our analysis, and I won't go 6 into a long explanation of that right now, but it 7 is a measure of how much profit the project will 8 give, and we found that it will give a very good 9 level of profit, particularly given that it is a 10 low risk project. We have done all of the risk 11 studies or sensitivities to show that Wuskwatim 12 economics are robust. If you have things 13 happening, you never know for sure what export 14 prices are going to be, or the load in the future, 15 or if you have droughts, we have done a full range 16 of studies to show that Wuskwatim will still be 17 economic under all the reasonable possibilities. 18 The last thing here is that we have 19 done studies or sensitivities that suggest that if 20 we have much higher energy conservation, or much 21 more wind generation, the Wuskwatim economics 22 still look very good. 23 24 They were prepared by a team that was 25 selected and reporting to both Manitoba Hydro and 3440 1 NCN, and the documents in the end had to reviewed 2 and approved by both Manitoba Hydro and NCN. 3 Just briefly to start with, 4 Environmental Impact Statements or EIS's were 5 prepared in accordance with the guidelines. These 6 guidelines set out the information requirements 7 that were required by the two Government agencies, 8 the Federal and Provincial Governments. The 9 guidelines stated that the EIS would need to do 10 certain things. The first things that the EIS had 11 to do was describe a description of the project. 12 That description has been refined as we have gone 13 forward and we have done the work required to 14 select routes for the transmission lines, and the 15 access road, and a lot of other refinements. 16 Another thing that the guidelines 17 required us to do is to do an assessment for 18 separate components of the environment. The 19 components of the environment that are listed 20 there and were listed in the guidelines are the 21 physical environment, the water, the land, the 22 air; the aquatic environment, that would be the 23 fish, the fish habitat, and anything else that 24 lives and survives in the water; the terrestrial 25 environment, the habitat, the plants, the animals 3441 1 that are on the lands; the socioeconomic 2 environment, the people and how they are affected 3 by these projects; and finally heritage resources 4 which under the law are the resources, physical 5 resources and sites that have a heritage value. 6 In each case the guidelines required 7 us, and the EIS's in fact to do provide a review 8 of the environments that would exist without these 9 projects being put into development, the baseline. 10 They look at the effects that these projects would 11 have, what change would they make to that 12 baseline? They look at how these changes could be 13 mitigated or made better, and therefore, if they 14 are adverse, how the effects could be reduced, if 15 they are positive, how could the effects be 16 enhanced? They look at cumulative effects, namely 17 the effects that exist in combination with other 18 projects, past, current, and future. They look at 19 residual effects, which means the effects that are 20 left at the end of the exercise after you have 21 considered all mitigation. And they talk about 22 environmental monitoring, the ongoing monitoring 23 of effects, and of each one these environments as 24 required, in order to see whether or not the 25 predictions come to pass, to see whether things 3442 1 that we did not predict come to pass and, in fact, 2 to provide information, when it is appropriate, so 3 people can manage effects better. 4 All of these were done throughout the 5 last several years, in combination with the public 6 involvement and consultation program as required 7 by the guidelines. So they just weren't done by 8 the environmental team, they weren't just done by 9 Manitoba Hydro and NCN by themselves, but they 10 were done in conversation with and consultation 11 with members of the NCN and other people in the 12 affected areas where the transmission lines could 13 be developed, including The Pas, including 14 Cormorant, including Snow Lake, including 15 Thompson, upstream and downstream of the 16 generation station, and the general public of 17 Manitoba and the North. 18 Very briefly, the assessment includes 19 not only scientific knowledge, but also local and 20 traditional knowledge. When we talk about 21 traditional knowledge, the guidelines require us 22 to deal with it, but what does it mean? This 23 Commission, when it held meetings in the north in 24 February of 2002, heard from many First Nations 25 and Aboriginal groups, their views of what 3443 1 constituted traditional knowledge. In this 2 Environmental Impact Statement, NCN puts out very 3 clearly its view of what traditional knowledge 4 consists of. Traditional knowledge is not just 5 facts about where things are, where people find 6 things, where traditional or cultural sites are. 7 It can also be experiences, relationships, 8 collective or personal. It can involve values, as 9 well as spiritual considerations, as well as 10 facts. In the case of NCN's definition, it does 11 not just include things that have happened for a 12 long time period, it also includes modern as well 13 as traditional. 14 The information that we used to 15 develop the EIS's came from NCN. They shared 16 their own traditional knowledge, they did their 17 own studies with their elders and people, they 18 involved their people -- we involved their people 19 in our field programs. Information was also 20 provided by people beyond the NCN community. 21 Ongoing consultation and involvement activities 22 occurred with other First Nations and Aboriginal 23 peoples for both the generation and the 24 transmission projects, with local governments, 25 including The Pas, including Thompson, with 3444 1 potentially affected stakeholders such as trappers 2 and resource harvesters in the areas of the 3 projects, including those from OCN, from 4 Cormorant, from Snow Lake area, and the general 5 public. 6 Public consultation and involvement 7 was an integral part, as I have been saying all 8 the way along, of the assessment process. It is 9 summarized in the documents and we would be happy 10 to answer questions about it. It has been going 11 on with NCN since 1997. It has been going on with 12 other communities beyond NCN since the fall of 13 2001. It has taken place in several stages with 14 other people, or rounds of activity. Extensive 15 opportunities have been made for us to provide 16 information to people about these projects, and 17 about the way we were consulting with them, and 18 for people to provide us with their views, 19 concerns, issues, and thoughts. 20 Various techniques have been used to 21 do this, including website information, open 22 houses, community meetings, and various 23 newsletters at each stage of the exercise. 24 When we go through the full detail of 25 the generation station, which we are now going to 3445 1 focus on, we would talk about the physical 2 environment first and we describe various elements 3 of it. We won't today, because George Rempel has 4 already described the water regime and that is the 5 key of the physical environment, and Ed Wojczynski 6 has already talked about the climate effects that 7 are positive, and that is another key element of 8 the physical environment. Stuart Davies will now 9 review with you briefly the generation portion of 10 the EIS dealing with the aquatic environment and 11 the terrestrial environment. 12 MR. DAVIES: A lot of these 13 slides -- a lot of these slides provide 14 information on the generation components with 15 information on the transmission components coming 16 through the Wuskwatim Power Point presentation. 17 The following slides focus on the 18 generation component, with information on the 19 transmission component coming through the Power 20 Point presentation that is going to follow. As 21 Mr. Wojcznski said, there has been an enormous 22 amount of information that has been collected. A 23 lot of that was collected for the Environmental 24 Impact Statement. 25 One of the ways that the information 3446 1 collected was brought to the community at Nelson 2 House was through the direct participation of a 3 number of NCN members. In the studies themselves, 4 about two-thirds of all of the people that 5 participated in the field work were NCN members. 6 A number of the technical people were actually 7 graduates of the Keewatin Community College in The 8 Pas, and some of them actually had come to the CEC 9 meeting last time. I am not sure if I am looking 10 at the class there -- is it the Keewatin Community 11 College -- good, it was a good way to meet some of 12 the students. 13 The information for the generation 14 component was collected, starting in 1998, with a 15 very detailed joint study program starting in 2000 16 and continuing up to today. There has been a 17 total of five years of water quality information 18 collected to date, with another year being planned 19 for 2004. A very large geographic area has been 20 sampled. Originally, the sampling was being 21 conducted from a point upstream of Early Morning 22 Rapids to a point just upstream of Thompson. 23 Through the public involvement program, concerns 24 were raised by downstream communities, and the 25 program was subsequently expanded to include sites 3447 1 downstream of Thompson. 2 When we met with additional 3 communities, they requested that it be expanded 4 further, and now it extends all of the way to just 5 upstream of Split Lake and it actually meets with 6 another program which extends all the way to the 7 estuary, so it's a very board area that is being 8 sampled. A broad range of parameters are being 9 looked at. The total suspended solids, which are 10 the clays and mud that get into the water during 11 construction are being monitored. All of the 12 nutrients, the things that make the plants and 13 algae in the water grow are being looked at, a 14 full suite of metals are being studied. At 15 specific locations we are also looking at things 16 like bacteria and parasites and oils and grease in 17 the water, so we have a really good idea of what 18 the pre-project conditions are like. 19 During construction we do expect that 20 there will be some short-term water quality 21 changes, particularly during construction 22 activities inside the river itself, things like 23 building the cofferdam, but they will be 24 relatively short term. During operation, we don't 25 expect there will be any measurable changes in the 3448 1 water quality going downstream through the system. 2 There may be some small localized effects right 3 near the shoreline where some of the erosion will 4 be taking place, but overall we don't expect to 5 see any measurable change in downstream areas. 6 Now, in regards to fish populations, 7 we feel that overall, looking at the project study 8 area as a whole, that the effects will be 9 positive. One of the reasons for this is, if we 10 take a look at the area upstream of the generating 11 station, right now the water level fluctuations 12 are about four and a half feet a year. We have 13 the water levels going up and down, which is 14 having a negative effect on all of the bugs and 15 plants that live along the shoreline. Sometimes 16 it is wet, now sometimes it is dry. When the 17 project is in place, the water level effects will 18 be limited to about 5 inches rather than about 4 19 and a half feet, so we expect to see much more 20 production. 21 In the downstream areas we expect to 22 see a negative impact on fish populations, partly 23 because of the increased water level fluctuations 24 that will occur when the water goes through the 25 generating station. The area upstream, though, is 3449 1 about 8 or 9 times bigger than the area 2 downstream, so overall we expect to see a net 3 positive effect on some of the key species like 4 jackfish, pickerel, white fish and tullibee. 5 The Federal Department of Fisheries 6 and Oceans plays a very important role in 7 regulating all of the developments that occur in 8 the water, with specific interest in fish habitat. 9 If there is any fish habitat that is going to be 10 lost or affected, there is a need to replace that. 11 A very detailed draft fish habitat compensation 12 program has been put in place to make sure that 13 any effects in the downstream areas are fully 14 compensated for, any of the effects by actually 15 placing the dam for the generating station are 16 fully compensated for. So we do expect that in 17 addition to the small increase that we expect to 18 see because of the stabilized water levels, it 19 will also have an increase because of the 20 implementation of the fish habitat compensation 21 plan. 22 Now, ultimately, the number of fish 23 that are in the lake, we want to make sure that 24 everyone realizes that really depends on how many 25 fish are taken out. With the increased road 3450 1 access, we do expect that the commercial fishery 2 will expand. Right now it is very expensive to 3 get the fish out, they are flown out. With the 4 road, they will be able to drive them out and we 5 expect to see more fish harvested from the lake, 6 and probably an increase in domestic harvesting 7 also. 8 One of the key issues that was raised 9 by NCN was mercury because of the effects of the 10 Churchill River Diversion. So we made sure that 11 there was a great deal of information collected on 12 it, and we looked at both what we expect would be 13 the likely scenario and also the worst case 14 scenario, and in both cases the increases that are 15 expected probably will not be large enough to be 16 detected over natural variation. When you sample 17 mercury in fish, one year it might be a little 18 higher than the next, one year it might be a 19 little lower, and we expect that the increases 20 will probably fall within that range. Regardless 21 of that, there will be monitoring for mercury 22 throughout the period. 23 If we look at the downstream areas, 24 there are some peat areas in Opegano Lake that may 25 die off, and some of the fish that live directly 3451 1 in the area, like jackfish that don't move very 2 much, some of the individual fish may have some 3 slight increases in mercury levels, but 4 populations as a whole won't be affected. We 5 don't expect to see any change in mercury 6 concentrations in fish downstream of Opegano Lake. 7 The majority of transport of mercury 8 occurs through the biota, which are all of the 9 things that live in the water, so fish are 10 normally the things that would take the mercury 11 downstream. There is very little fish movement 12 because Taskinigup Falls is not -- fish can't swim 13 upstream over Taskinigup Falls, so there is little 14 fish movement between the areas and we don't 15 expect to see any change. Actually, the predicted 16 increases in Wuskwatim Lake would still be smaller 17 than the existing levels in Birchtree and Opegano 18 Lake. 19 I think that is the last slide on 20 this, but the one thing we want to make sure 21 everyone realizes is there will be a very detailed 22 monitoring program. A draft has been developed 23 and provided to the Department of Fisheries and 24 Oceans for their review and consideration. We 25 have said that the information that we collected 3452 1 for the study started 1998. It went full out in 2 2000. The monitoring program would go to around 3 2025. So we are looking at information being 4 collected from 1998 to 2025, which is a very long 5 period of time, which will give us a good 6 understanding I think of everything that would 7 have happened if the project is in fact 8 constructed. Thank you. 9 THE CHAIRMAN: We are making headway. 10 MR. OSLER: I am back to finish this 11 presentation on the generation side looking at the 12 socioeconomic effects, the effects on the people, 13 and as well the resource use. Very quickly, the 14 resource use activity, as Mr. Davies has just 15 described, will be long term and positive to do 16 the generation station due to the improved access 17 to the area. Land and water use will be described 18 in the transmission discussion that is coming up, 19 after the break I expect. The effect on the 20 economy deals with jobs and training and 21 contracting opportunities to do the generation 22 station -- and I will say a few things more in a 23 minute on that -- as well as the ownership 24 opportunity for NCN, which would give this 25 community the opportunity to earn income from the 3453 1 project after it starts operating and into the 2 future as long as the project operates. 3 Under personal family and community 4 life, we are talking about the effects on local 5 transportation, safety, and access, where there 6 are no new incremental issues that arise that are 7 of any significance. We are talking about the 8 esthetics, the loss of the falls, and any other 9 changes to the area that result from these 10 projects. We are talking about community health, 11 which is of great concern to First Nations such as 12 NCN. The overall conclusion in the studies is 13 that the community health will not be adversely 14 affected by the project, and the long-term income 15 from the project may help NCN address their 16 concerns in this area overall. 17 Social well-being of the community and 18 its culture are also addressed under this heading. 19 Again, in dealing with an important cultural site, 20 which Taskinigup is, the approaches that are 21 needed to deal with it with respect and proper 22 ceremonies are noted carefully by NCN in the EIS. 23 But overall, again, the project provides 24 opportunity for the First Nation, improved access 25 for its members to this area, and improved income 3454 1 to protect, sustain, and develop its culture. 2 Community organization and governance 3 and goals and plans of NCN are also addressed in 4 the EIS, and the concordance or ways in which this 5 project helps them in this regard are noted. 6 In terms of heritage resources, the 7 work done in the course of preparing the EIS did 8 not identify any special heritage resources that 9 would be affected that are known by the project. 10 But it also sets out the steps that will be taken 11 in the course of doing the project to make sure 12 that people are on site, that have knowledge, and 13 they can see if anything unforeseen of a heritage 14 nature emerges so it can be protected and dealt 15 with properly according to both the law and 16 respectful approach needed if it is a First Nation 17 heritage resource. 18 The other brief point that I would 19 like to make is just to note the jobs associated 20 with the generation project. This graph shows the 21 peak positions that would be available for working 22 on the construction of the project. It shows six 23 years. It shows how the jobs vary during each 24 year, how they tend to be seasonal, being maximum 25 during the summer and being quite low during the 3455 1 winter. And the final thing -- they also show how 2 they vary greatly between the first two years, 3 when you are developing the access road and the 4 camp, and the last four years when you are 5 physically building the generation station. 6 And the final thing that they show is, 7 in the colour, the differences in skill 8 requirements to work in these jobs. The blue 9 shows what they call non-designated trade 10 requirements. Most of them, 45 percent of them 11 require less than a year's prior experience and 12 training. These are truck drivers, heavy 13 equipment operators, labourers, and other skills 14 of that nature. Some of them require two years of 15 training and prior work experience. In each job 16 category there will be opportunities for about 17 one-fifth of them, 20 percent, to be trainees. 18 The green shows designated trades. People to 19 become fully qualified in these trades usually 20 require at least four years of training and work 21 experience. These are carpenters, electricians, 22 plumbers. There are a lot of them required to 23 build the facility. 24 The training programs that you heard 25 about earlier are helping people train before 3456 1 these projects start construction for these types 2 of jobs. There will be special measures taken to 3 help people who are trainees work on the site and 4 retain these jobs, and about one-fifth again, 5 20 percent of the designated trades, will be 6 available for apprentices. But to even be an 7 apprentice, you would to have at least two years 8 of prior work experience and training. 9 So that is the type of opportunities 10 that are associated with the generation project. 11 The opportunity for northerners who are Aboriginal 12 to get these jobs, we estimate up to 90 percent of 13 the first two years' jobs will probably go, or 14 could go to northern Aboriginal residents. During 15 the generation station construction, the last four 16 years, the numbers are lower, 31 to 42 percent, 17 reflecting the higher skill requirements, more 18 training and experience required to even get 19 qualified to come on the site. 20 It says at the top, peak annual jobs 21 150 to 550, there is a typo, that should read 540. 22 All of these jobs are unionized jobs and there 23 will be a collective agreement that will apply. 24 To summarize the overall EIS results, 25 before we -- we are going to have Elvis at the 3457 1 very end of what I am talking about, I believe, 2 and then we will go to the transmission after the 3 break. I think you will want to have a break 4 before we go to the transmission, so I will 5 conclude and then we will have the break. 6 Very quick summary of all of the 7 effects of both projects; the projects were 8 designed to avoid and minimize adverse effects. 9 You have heard about this in the way in which they 10 had the low head rather than the high head. You 11 heard about it in terms of how we selected routes, 12 how we decided to operate it. The result is that 13 the projects are expected to create no significant 14 adverse effects on the environment or related 15 effects on people. It doesn't mean that there 16 won't be adverse effects. There will be some, but 17 that they will not be -- using the rules that we 18 have to use for environmental assessment -- they 19 will not be significant. 20 Positive biophysical effects are 21 likely to result from displacing global greenhouse 22 gas emissions, as Mr. Wojcznski has described, and 23 from reducing annual fluctuations in levels of 24 Wuskwatim Lake that are caused by the Churchill 25 River Diversion, as George Rempel has described. 3458 1 Positive socioeconomic effects for 2 people are likely to result during the 3 construction and operation. This will happen for 4 people in the local area, NCN members, people in 5 Thompson, probably people in the Burntwood/Nelson 6 House region. There will also be positive 7 socioeconomic and economic benefits, though, for 8 all Manitobans. 9 Mr. Chairman, that concludes our 10 overview. There will be a review of the 11 transmission section in more detail after the 12 break. 13 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Osler. 14 After the break, therefore, there will be the 15 final segment of presentations. This information 16 is provided by the proponents so that you can have 17 a better grasp of what is being proposed in 18 regards to this project, so that you in turn can 19 proceed to ask the questions for the information 20 that -- to clarify, to better understand what is 21 being -- or to express views about what you 22 understood. And the final segment of that will be 23 the transmission lines, and they will present that 24 right after the break. We will now break until 10 25 after 3:00 o'clock. 3459 1 (PROCEEDINGS RECESSED AT 2:55 P.M. 2 AND RECONVENED AT 3:10 P.M.) 3 4 THE CHAIRMAN: As I indicated before 5 we took the break, there is one more segment of 6 information to present, and then it will be your 7 turn to input into this process. So I pass it on 8 to whoever has that responsibility to present the 9 information. 10 MR. THOMAS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 11 This presentation is in Cree, this is something 12 that we had done before the Environmental Impact 13 Assessment was put forward. It has been, it took 14 quite a bit of effort to do. We have a number of 15 our own people in the community that provide us 16 with their knowledge of the Cree language and 17 provide translation for all of the difficult 18 concepts that we have to go through as a team. 19 That translation team consists of one 20 of my colleagues, Councillor Darcy Linklater, and 21 we also have his brother, Terry Linklater, whose 22 voice you will hear on the transmission 23 translation. And we have Jimmy D. Spence, one of 24 our other elders, but also one of our employees, 25 who is very knowledgeable in the use of our 3460 1 language as well, currently providing simultaneous 2 translation. And we have Charlie Hart and Henry 3 Wood. These have been the key people when it 4 comes to translating all of the important concepts 5 and documents for us and they have done a very 6 outstanding job. 7 I don't see too many Cree speaking 8 people, so I won't go into the Cree language, but 9 we had an opportunity to do a Cree presentation in 10 Thompson. I have provided a brief synopsis of the 11 whole thing that we had been working on, and we've 12 done the generation station side of the 13 presentation in Cree, provided an overview, and 14 now we are going to provide you with a 15 continuation of that presentation, but this time 16 with a focus on the transmission side of things, 17 and it is all being done in Cree. For those of 18 you that don't speak Cree, there will be written 19 information on the presentation that will allow 20 you to follow along with what is being said. So 21 with that, let's start. 22 23 (PRESENTATION IN CREE) 24 25 MR. THOMAS: That concludes the 3461 1 presentation that we are doing to the public. 2 We've focused on three major areas. First, we 3 described the whole project to everyone, and we've 4 also focused on the need for and alternatives to 5 area; and finally, we have done the Environmental 6 Impact Assessment statement to everyone. 7 Throughout this process we have 8 engaged our 1996 implementation agreement, which 9 contains an article 8 provision that requires 10 Manitoba Hydro to come to our people to consult 11 with us first if there is to be any potential 12 development in our traditional territory. That 13 process has been followed. It requires that our 14 consent be obtained and compensation issues be 15 dealt with prior to the start of construction. 16 And Manitoba Hydro has followed the processes that 17 have been established for that kind of stuff. 18 We have engaged that article to obtain 19 funding from Manitoba Hydro that allows us to 20 engage in a consultation process that is far 21 different than what has been done in the past. 22 Through the provision of funding through the 23 article 8 process, we have been able to hire our 24 own people to be involved in a process that is 25 community driven. We've engaged in many 3462 1 workshops, open houses. We have consulted with 2 our people via newsletters, opinion surveys, 3 various forms of media communication. 4 All of that has resulted in an 5 Agreement in Principle being drafted up and put 6 forward to our people for consideration, and also 7 for ratification through a referendum process. 8 We've also engaged, we've also agreed to engage in 9 another referendum process with respect to the 10 ratification of the final project development 11 agreement. 12 This project development agreement has 13 had a preview of it done in the form of a summary 14 of understanding. That is going to be, the SOU is 15 going to be finalized in the project development 16 agreement, and the people will have an opportunity 17 to vote on it again. So, we will have gone 18 through two referendums by the time we finish with 19 this process. 20 The NCN Chief and Council established 21 a future development portfolio, and we've also 22 established a future development team, which 23 consists of myself as the portfolio councillor, 24 but I have also had many members of Chief and 25 Council be involved in our process as well. 3463 1 Councillor Darcy Linklater has been very heavily 2 involved for quite a long time, working with me 3 and assisting me to try and handle the 4 responsibilities. We have also had Councillor 5 David Spence, Councillor Angus Spence, actually 6 all of my colleagues, the Chief and my other 7 colleagues, Chief Jimmy Hunter Spence and all of 8 those people have been very heavily involved in 9 this process. 10 We have hired two of our own people to 11 be co-managers for assisting us in dealing with 12 the future development issues. Those people are 13 Marcel Moody, he is a former councillor and a 14 former leading negotiator for the Northern Flood 15 Agreement, Implementation Agreement that was 16 ratified in 1996. We also have Norman Linklater 17 who is another co-manager. He is a former Chief, 18 and he was also involved in the consultation 19 process with our people. We have hired our own 20 legal advisors, our own financial advisors, our 21 own engineering advisors. 22 We have changed things around a bit. 23 Previous to us doing the process the way that we 24 are, we used to have a whole bunch of 25 non-aboriginal consultants, legal, financial,